Unclean Beast player says UB needs balancing

...as in, an adjustment to his damage....downwards.

Published on April 19, 2009 By Fractallicon In Demigod Strategies

I may be wrong here...have only played Torchbearer once...but does he not have to max out the Fireball line to get a 1050, slowish casting fireball? Unclean Beast to me (I have played him in all but 1 custom game this weekend...and that was the only game my team lost) seems grossly overpowered compared to a DG whose sole purpose seems to be damage. At rank 3 of Venomous Spit, I am doing..what, 1050 or 1500 damage? I'm already matching or outdamaging the TB who should normally be a ranged-only DG.

I start the game with Swift Anklets and buy Boots of Speed right off the bat. Add in Venomous Spit, and I can harass the *hell* out of any other DG in the game. After that, I get the basic 5% +attack speed gloves...and start saving up for Heart of Life (4250 gold). Once I get HoL, it's all over. Yeah, I may still die....rarely..but for the most part I can fly around the map Spitting on DGs, retaking flags, annihilating creep waves, levelling and earning gold without worrying. Every 30 seconds, I can refill my HP and mana to full without going back to the crystal at base. Add in another set of gloves (Wyrmskin) and the Hauberk of Life and Vlemish Faceguard for +mana regen, and the UB becomes a fast-moving, hard-hitting ridiculous killing machine.

Torchbearer: A) Decent "sudden" damage at range with maxed out fireball, but it's slow to fire and does less damage than Spit when Spit is maxxed. Can't match UB's speed even with the same items due to Inner Beast.

Essentially, the TB does less damage at range (though he does it faster) and has to get into near-melee range to use things like Fire Nova or whatever the fire/ice Nova PBAoE spells are....which means, faced with Spit+Melee+Grasp...he's dead. The only thing that can save him is a good Sedna player healing him, or a QoT with Bramble Shield. But if they react too slow, and the Spit hits the UB...he''s gonna run. Guaranteed.

Overall I am thinking that UB's base melee damage needs to be lowered by about 10-15% to offset his ridiculous attack speed with items, and his Spit ability needs a good readjusting....on the order of about 20% when maxed, and maybe 10% less per rank before that. Alternately, TB needs a boost on his HP so he doesn't have to run every time he gets hit by a single Spit blast from a UB player.

Thoughts?

Comments (Page 2)

towarf

on Apr 19, 2009

Not at all, a player who plays most the other demigods well can deal with UB. It seems quite balanced. I have been on both sides and it really comes down to the player.

khemintiri

on Apr 19, 2009

heart is op though gief heart nerf

Blakeybastard

on Apr 19, 2009

whats the stats on Torch bearers +attack/move speed passive skill? i'd be willing to bet he can pick up some decent speed

infact just gonna go off and test it now

swift anklets + 15% boots = 8.7 10.2 with the wand of speed, and if u get hit, theres a high chance it goes up to 13.7.. thats an insane speed to be running about.. shame how pathetic Fire TB damage is late game

Number 9

on Apr 19, 2009

I'm also an UB player and I will say that he's fine as-is.

Perhaps it would open your eyes a little if you were to play the TB more than -ONCE-. He's the one I feel is the real play-maker on the assassin side but would never call for a nerf. Sometimes I wonder about these people who feel something is too OP and what their intentions really are. Especially if they're calling it on "their most played/preferred class". I guess I could assume you're a completely selfless and righteous person, a do-gooder for all that is fair and balanced... but this is the interwebs, after all.

liq3

on Apr 19, 2009

It's only dangerous against low HP builds. Any tank build is going to have at least 20+ hp regen by the time you're level 10, which means it's down to 1300 damage.

Also, Regulus with mines and MotB can get out 3600 damage + 70% slow. This is far worse then spit, is probably a death sentence for that DG.

Also, spit has nothing on a tank Rook. He'll have so much regen and health he'll just shrug it off.

What's REALLY scary is Spit + Ooze + Stun.

woca

on Apr 19, 2009

liq3

reply 20

It's only dangerous against low HP builds. Any tank build is going to have at least 20+ hp regen by the time you're level 10, which means it's down to 1300 damage.

Also, Regulus with mines and MotB can get out 3600 damage + 70% slow. This is far worse then spit, is probably a death sentence for that DG.

Also, spit has nothing on a tank Rook. He'll have so much regen and health he'll just shrug it off.

What's REALLY scary is Spit + Ooze + Stun.

have you played rook? he's mana heavy if you want to kill a demigod

The_Regicide

on Apr 19, 2009

Spits, runs in, grasps, berserks and slashes you for a bajillion damage. You somehow manage to run away, but can't use Heart of Life for a minute or so due to the plague. Yeah, I'd say it's kinda OP.

liq3

on Apr 19, 2009

woca

reply 21

have you played rook? he's mana heavy if you want to kill a demigod

I know. Vlemish Faceguard + Plenor Battlecrown fixes most mana problems, and it's only 3250 gold for both items.

The_Regicide

reply 22

Spits, runs in, grasps, berserks and slashes you for a bajillion damage. You somehow manage to run away, but can't use Heart of Life for a minute or so due to the plague. Yeah, I'd say it's kinda OP.

A tele scroll will get you back to base in 4 seconds (1 second to use it) and once you're at base spit is removed, as well as plauge.

PossiblyImpossible

on Apr 19, 2009

I've said this before but I'll say it again.

The solution for Venomous Spit is to double the duration but keep the overall damage the same, effectively halving the DPS.

AngryZealot

on Apr 19, 2009

Why not make that scroll cheaper that can cure the plague?

PossiblyImpossible

on Apr 19, 2009

I don't believe items should be used for balancing purposes. If a skill has issue it should be changed.

Luv3rboy

on Apr 19, 2009

Fractallicon

reply 7

Quoting Luv3rboy, reply 2You are correct on most of the points you brought up. While there are ways to make UB an extremely powerful character, you can totally screw up on some points and never be able to come back.

Personally, I have found that as long as you max out Spit and Inner Beast, with a point in Grasp...you've got 75% of the Unclean Beast's potential unlocked right there. Any other choice in point distribution comes down to playstyle.

that is true, but my first time playing i wnet for full ooze first and never gained a lvl past 6 lol, now im all about the spit + inner, then i get + health per second armor and glovbes to use ooze, i rarely get grasp though, not until 15 lol

Fractallicon

on Apr 19, 2009

Vid-szhite

reply 14

He also HAS a really powerful melee ability that stuns the enemy while it drains their HP. It does a LOT of damage. I don't think you really play UB, do you? You would know this stuff if you did.

Yes, I do. Re-read my original post. I mention his (Foul) Grasp ability, which is mainly useful for its stun component. It actually doesn't do that much damage, far less than Spit does (or even base melee damage over the same period of time). I'll turn the question around; do YOU play UB at all? If you did, you wouldn't think Grasp did anything useful beyond interrupting and stunning your enemy. The heal/lifedrain is...meh. And I know his melee damage is tremendous.

How, exactly, did you not get that from reading my posts?

Fractallicon

on Apr 19, 2009

pyrosmurfs

reply 19

I'm also an UB player and I will say that he's fine as-is.

Perhaps it would open your eyes a little if you were to play the TB more than -ONCE-. He's the one I feel is the real play-maker on the assassin side but would never call for a nerf. Sometimes I wonder about these people who feel something is too OP and what their intentions really are. Especially if they're calling it on "their most played/preferred class". I guess I could assume you're a completely selfless and righteous person, a do-gooder for all that is fair and balanced... but this is the interwebs, after all.

I'm not righteous. I'm simply saying that on average, I find the combination of an easily attainable, high damage, medium range DoT on a mainly melee character is a design...oddity. Nothing more. And you're right, this being the "interwebs" I already have a bunch of people waving their e-phallus at me, telling me that they understand the class and game mechanics better than I do etcetera etetera....

I'll just let it drop, go play and kill them instead.

Fractallicon

on Apr 19, 2009

The_Regicide

reply 22

Spits, runs in, grasps, berserks and slashes you for a bajillion damage. You somehow manage to run away, but can't use Heart of Life for a minute or so due to the plague. Yeah, I'd say it's kinda OP.

This guy is getting it.

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